User talk:Premeditated Chaos/Archive 19

♠ New messages to the bottom please. I will reply here without pinging unless asked otherwise. ♠ Please link to articles you're asking about by enclosing the title in [[brackets]]. ♠ For undeletion requests, provide 3-4 reliable sources that indicate notability. ♠ Less is more. Walls of text and piles of links will be ignored. ♠ Please don't template the regulars. I don't mind criticism but being templated is a bad way to start a conversation. ♠ This talk page is watched by a few friendly talk page stalkers who may respond to messages when I'm not around.

AFD closure

Thank you for your contribution, Dean Wormer. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:04, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I would've kicked myself if I hadn't, after your comment. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:10, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Osano page

You deleted the page for company Osano.

4 people contributed to the deletion discussion . 2 votes keep 2 votes delete. One of the deletion votes confused businesswire ( a press release outlet) with business insider (a large independent media outlet)

Why delete it in that case? Chatterboxer (talk) 17:26, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

AfD is not a straight vote, it is a discussion. Admins have leeway to weigh arguments based on their persuasiveness and the responses (if any) made to them. HighKing pointed out that the sources presented at the AfD fail WP:ORGIND, which means that they have little weight when it comes to indicating notability. The only person who mentioned BusinessWire was Hugsyrup, who was talking about the sources already in the article (not the ones mentioned on the AfD page), and who voted for keep anyway. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:50, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Regatta in Venice

Though consistent with the strict rules of the Disam police, moves like these really aren't helpful to the reader - this is a very common subject] in vedute paintings, and indeed real regattas are still held (the word is itself Venetian). Can't you find anything more useful to do? Johnbod (talk) 03:07, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Do you truly have no other mode of communication than condescension? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:46, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes. Johnbod (talk) 03:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Then do me a favor and stay off my talk page until you can learn to communicate without it. I'll be happy to talk to you when you can manage that. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

YouTube as a Source

Thank you for your helpful feedback, Premeditated Chaos, and the positive and gracious spirit in which you've passed it on. I've used Wikipedia for years but haven't always been active as a contributor and editor, so I'm still learning the ropes somewhat. As a result, in the quest for greater good I still make some false steps on occasion, as I apparently did on the page for the Circus Card Trick. I'm grateful to you for your remarks, and will take your comments on board for future reference. Your suggestions about correct form in marking edit summaries is particularly useful.

About citing YouTube, what is your take on the page for the Twenty-One Card Trick? Browse down to the section Demonstration, where someone has embedded a link to a youtube video with the caption "Click to watch a performance that explains the logic of the trick". Is that allowable?

Once again, I am appreciative of your input! Gregorytopov (talk) 10:07, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Please ping me after you've responded here; I'm still figuring out how to create notifications for that kind of thing. Gregorytopov (talk) 10:13, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi Gregorytopov, linking to YouTube as an external link is usually frowned upon for reasons best explained by the external links guideline, especially the sections WP:YT and WP:ELNEVER. Basically, it's prone to being used for spam and isn't necessarily a reliable source of information. I've removed that entire section, since the other link was to WikiHow, which is also not a suitable external link. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 10:28, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Exactly what I was after, Premeditated Chaos, many thanks! Gregorytopov (talk) 11:12, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Cheers :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:32, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your service on the Arbitration Committee. ↠Pine (✉) 20:45, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, that's very kind. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:23, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Ship naming

Hi Premeditated Chaos: Please don't change the ship names to remove the ship designation. One, the WP ship project has decided that Shipname 18xx ship) is the new (several years now) standard. Two, it disambiguates. (That's why the standard was adopted.) What is Name (17xx), an article about Name, in 17xx, or an article about a ship named that? The reason the format you mistakenly implemented is common is that there is a backlog of names that should be fixed, but that is a laborious process because one really should go to the templates and articles that carry the name and change them. And don't get me started on the people that assumed that the only "Local vessel (ship)" was the only vessel in all human history that ever bore that name. Anyway, I would appreciate it if you would be kind enough to revert your changes so I don't have to. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I apologize. You're absolutely right, that's exactly what happened - I looked at a couple of names linked from the "List of ship launches in XXXX" that I was editing, and the examples listed at {{Ship}} and saw year-only endings and assumed that was the correct style. I've moved them back. Is there a list somewhere of the titles that need to be updated? I don't mind grunt work and at least I could do a few by way of apology. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:12, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. I am not aware of any list. If, by chance, I come across cases, sometimes I will do the move. A lot depends on how much is linked. Where I am most likely to find cases is when I am putting up a ship index page grouping several vessels with the same name and then find them. No apologies or penance required. I have recently been slapped with a wet trout for something I unthinkingly did. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:46, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Peripheral pin controller

Hi, as there is an article about the StrongARM family of microprocessors, feel free to create merge/redirect (per your PROD rationale). However, I find these details excessive, so I will not perform the merger myself. Pavlor (talk) 12:34, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Argh thank you! For some reason that just did not come up when I looked (or maybe I didn't see it). I've redirected without merging, cheers. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 15:05, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LockerDome

Hello,

I am the creator of the LockerDome article (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LockerDome). I was not notified of this poorly participated AfD, and I have to say I do not agree at all with the nominator. Could this discussion be re-opened? Or what would be best? Schierbecker (talk) 06:27, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I don't normally do this, but since it was an AfD with minimal participation and no relists, I'm willing to reopen it and relist it for further comment. Just for the record though, it is not mandatory to advise the creator of an article of an AfD, and not being notified does not invalidate the result. If there had been more participation, I don't think I'd reopen after the fact. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:46, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Closure of Current Cast of Shortland Street

Shortland_Street#Characters

This page was deleted due to the fact that there is a List of Shortland Street Characters. [[1]]

I strongly disagree with the argument set forth, because that page has a specific purpose, to show us who is in the cast currently, like many other shows that has no deletion, nor should be deleted. The list is to show the whole characters that has appeared on the show - however that list is not completed with some characters missing. Nonetheless, it is easier to see who is on the current cast, rather than going through an exhaustive list to see who is on. Moreover, some returning characters are on the show again, and their return is not reflected on the list.

I would kindly request for the return of the cast list, so it is easier to keep track of who are the current cast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adeafkiwi (talk • contribs) 20:18, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

That's an argument you should have made at the AfD. The consensus there (and unlike the LockerDome AfD above, there were enough participants to call it a true consensus) was that it was redundant to the main list article, and not Wikipedia's job to keep track of that kind of thing. I can email you the content if you like, and you can import it to a fandom wiki if there is one, or any other site of your choosing. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:51, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Thomas W. Campbell deletion

My advance regrets for being unfamiliar with the proper channels of discussing deletion actions, so please forgive if this is inappropriate. Trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. It appears the deletion has occurred by consensus, though in reading the archived discussion, it appears there were some presumptions that administrators had drawn from the entry itself, and the entry is in need of editing to meet GNG. Keep in mind, this is a scientist who is proposing a General Theory_of_everything, and is the first scientist to devise experiments to test the Simulation_hypothesis. Since i am not sure if i am violating Wiki procedures by typing in this 'talk page' is it possible to contact you in an informal way (email for example) to discuss this deletion so i can properly engage in the discussion. I have read several pages now on how to do this correctly, in accordance with Wikipedia procedures, guidelines, rules, criteria etc. and it all seems overwhelming. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.101.5 (talk) 07:56, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi, first of all, it's perfectly fine for you to chat to me here. Wikipedia can be totally Byzantine for people who are unfamiliar with it, so don't feel bad about being a bit lost (frankly I've been doing this for years and I still fuck up from time to time). You're doing fine so far :) Since the original discussion was a public one, I'd prefer to keep our discussion public as well. I've linked a few useful policies below for ease of access.

On to your actual query. So, the GNG (general notability guideline) doesn't actually have anything to do with the content in the article. It's not something that can be met by editing the article. The GNG is a standard by which we judge encyclopedic notability, and therefore whether or not to keep an article. To determine if something meets the GNG, we look for the existence of reliable, independent sources that exist off-wiki to support a claim of notability. There's no bright line of exactly what is needed, it's fuzzy on purpose because sourcing is not always precisely the same across all subjects.

Generally what we look for is several (at least two or three) sources that go into a reasonable degree of depth about the subject. We want those sources to be reliable (reputation for fact-checking and/or accurate reporting), independent (not produced by the subject or parties related to them). The best-regarded publications are those which cater to a broad audience both geographically and topically. In other words, what we're looking for is an indication, to quote from the notability guideline, that a subject has gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large, before we go writing about it in Wikipedia. When a subject fails to meet that standard, we consider the subject to be not notable, and usually the article is deleted.

So the problem, then, with the Campbell article is that nobody at the deletion discussion ("the AfD" for short) produced any sources that met those criteria. At the end of the AfD listing period, there was a consensus that the article should be deleted since no sources supporting notability were provided. There was one editor arguing to keep the article, but his arguments did not support the claim of notability with any sources (or provide any reason why the sourcing requirement should be overlooked), so I did not consider it to outweigh the delete arguments when I closed the discussion. Since the discussion is now closed, unfortunately there isn't really a way to participate in it. I'm willing to hear you out and potentially undelete the article if you can provide reliable sources that would indicate notability. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:46, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hexaware Technologies Wiki Page Got Deleted

Hi,

We had noticed that the Hexaware Technologies Wikipedia page has got removed, wants to understand how this happened and requests your help in the undeletion of the Hexaware Technologies Wiki Page.

Regards, Monisha — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.104.127 (talk) 09:41, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

See this discussion on the help desk. Mikenorton (talk) 09:48, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Monisha. Who all is "we"? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:47, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hexaware had noticed that the Hexaware Technologies Wikipedia page has got removed wants to understand how this happened and request your help in the undeletion of the Hexaware Technologies Wiki Page.

Regards, Monisha — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.104.133 (talk) 06:00, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Long story short: it was deleted because it was found at the discussion to not be notable, based on a lack of reliable sources. Unless you can produce reliable sources that would indicate the company would pass our very strict notability criteria for companies the page will not be undeleted. Please read and understand our guidelines on reliable sources and corporate notability to see the kind of high-quality sources we are looking for. Since you are affiliated with Hexaware, you should also read and understand our guidelines on paid editing and editing when you have a conflict of interest before you make further edits on their behalf. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:25, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Sure I will look into it, but for now kindly activate the page, so that we will edit all the sections and make it reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.104.133 (talk) 11:04, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Well, you clearly didn't read a word I said, so no. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:43, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi Sir, I have read the points you have mentioned. We are ready to produce reliable resources from our end in regards to citations and other sources. But for correcting all the details there we require some time to work on the content to make the page effective. So I request you to kindly undelete the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.104.127 (talk) 05:09, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

No, you don't understand how this works. You need to show me appropriate references indicating notability before any kind of undeletion happens. If you have actually read and and understood our guidelines for reliable sources and corporate notability, you'll know the kinds of reliable, independent, in-depth coverage we look for, so I assume what you choose to show me in your next response will be your best examples. If you don't have coverage that meets our guidelines, there's no further point to this discussion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Kindly find the attached data, hope this works. https://hexaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Q4-19-Press-Release-2.pdf https://m.economictimes.com/tech/ites/hexaware-acquires-mobiquity-inc-for-182-mn/articleshow/69782373.cms — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.104.127 (talk) 07:36, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

You obviously did not read or understand our reliable sources guideline, or you'd be well aware that a press release is not an independent source. I'm done here; please don't ask me about this again. I edit Wikipedia as a hobby, not to assist corporations in flooding us with spam, and I've given you enough of my time. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry for taking your time. Kind of you to answer me so patiently. One last time, kindly find the reliable source I think this works, correct me if I'm wrong please. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hexaware-technologies-announced-as-a-winner-of-2019-itsma-marketing-excellence-award-300959110.html https://forextv.com/top-news/isg-announces-isg-paragon-awards-apac-finalists/ https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hexaware-receives-rookie-of-the-year-award-at-pegaworld-2019-300863780.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.104.127 (talk) 09:29, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

I think that Premeditated Chaos may be enjoying a well-deserved sleep, so I'll take over. Are you (A) actually asking PMC to find sources for Hexaware Technologies from within the article Outsourcing? Or are you (B) asking, "Look, the article on Outsourcing also has promotional sources, so why are you picking on Hexaware Technologies?"? If (A), then PMC won't (and I won't either). If (B), then a quick glance suggests that most of the sources in it are pretty good. Some may be poor (or good but misused); if they are, then yes, other (poor) stuff exists. Wait till your company is written up in reliable, disinterested sources, and for volunteers unrelated to your company to want to use those sources to produce a neutral article. I suggest that you do not reply here: everything that needed to be said has been said. -- Hoary (talk) 10:07, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Hoary. Monisha, if you can't tell that a site called PR News Wire is not an independent source (here's a hint: they publish press releases given to them by the company), you have no business trying to edit here. Any further posts from you or your company will be ignored. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello. I would like to make my contribution on Hexaware Technologies. Can anyone help me on this? by reinstating this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isha2109 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Nope. Read the above discussion, understand it, bring me sources. Crap sources will be ignored. I'm not rehashing this and further messages without good sources will be ignored. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:33, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Cool. Understood, please find the relevant sources given: https://www.equitybulls.com/admin/news2006/news_det.asp?id=263652

https://ibsintelligence.com/ibs-journal/ibs-news/hexaware-ibs-intelligence-explicate-libor-transition-strategies/

https://isg-one.com/events-landing/event-detail/2018-paragon-awards-americas

https://hrnxt.com/news/pr/hexaware-recognized-as-a-contender-in-workday-services-evaluation-by-a-research-firm/12232/2020/01/13/

https://simplywall.st/stocks/in/software/nse-hexaware/hexaware-technologies-shares/news/heres-how-we-evaluate-hexaware-technologies-limiteds-nsehexaware-dividend-2/

Hope this works. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isha2109 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

All useless for the purpose of supporting a claim of notability, they're all either press releases, trivial mentions, or sketchy blogs. Don't post here again; you obviously don't have a strong understanding of our sourcing requirements for corporations. You can go bug the people at the WP:TEAHOUSE if you want help - make sure you disclose your conflict of interest. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:28, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Didja? Do ya?

PMC, remember this DYK? It inspired me. -- Hoary (talk) 00:24, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

I do remember that DYK! I really enjoyed writing Kaijin Akashi to go along with it. I still want to buy a copy of Poet Island, I just keep not getting around to it. Gorgeous work on Teikō Shiotani, I think you could easily take that through GA. That photo of the shipwreck is something else. I love the guy's complaint about their trip to Shimane that they almost starved, found no inns, and oh yeah, there weren't any women either. The more things change... ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:44, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Urgh ... I hope that nobody misinfers that these were five "incels" avant la lettre. He's not entirely clear (and he's expressing himself in a broad dialect that's unfamiliar to Mrs Hoary, let alone to me); but my guess was that women meant the people who might provide food. -- Hoary (talk) 01:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Hahaha, no, if anything I saw it as rather charming. It's got a very bohemian-playboy-starving-artist kind of vibe. Don't worry, I don't think anybody will read it and think incel. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:57, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Well that's a relief. ¶ That article was extraordinarily complex: such a large percentage of what should be straightforward facts seemed to need qualifying remarks. Take for example the way in which "Sadayoshi" became "Teikō". The latter really can't be called a pseudonym. The process is extremely common in Japan; among photographers, then just off the top of my head we have Daidō (originally Hiromichi) Moriyama, Issei (originally Kazumasa) Suda, and I'd be surprised if the Ikkō in Ikkō Narahara wasn't originally Kazutaka. But en:WP doesn't seem to mention yūsoku-yomi, and if I wanted to add a little paragraph about it to an article on names, of course I'd have to source it. Et cetera. ¶ If you really do want Poet Island, then it's here and here, and perhaps elsewhere too. -- Hoary (talk) 09:50, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Huh, I had no idea that was such a common thing with Japanese names. The Japanese Wikipedia article about it is rather interesting, a big chunk of it is complaining about misuse of the concept (or maybe misinformation about it?) on Wikipedia. The machine translation is pretty janky though so I'm not 100% clear on what the controversy is. Shipping from Japan to Canada almost costs more than the book does, but there are copies on PhotoEye which I think ships from the States, so I might go for that. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:49, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, postage to Canada does cost quite a bit (as I've learned the hard way). ¶ Hmm, yes, I might have a potential "good article" there. (I'm just hoping that the freshly revamped note #11 doesn't cause anyone's browser to explode.) But it took me two months; some of the DYK regulars can knock out something just as good in three days, or so it seems. -- Hoary (talk) 13:02, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, some peoples' ability to bang off good prose on a regular basis is really astonishing. I can't work at that kind of speed unless I'm good and fixated on something, and that sort of comes inconsistently. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 17:57, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Uzbekistan national football team head-to-head record

Would you mind taking a look at this? It appears to be a duplicate of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uzbekistan national football team head to head created by a page move shortly after the AFD was started. The page move most likely was done in good faith without realizing that the old page was being discussed at AfD. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:43, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Nucleated, thanks for the heads up. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:15, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a look. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:04, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

De-orphaning ship articles

I'm absolutely delighted that you are doing this but sadly so often the launch date recorded in the article is wrong. Frequently an inexperienced editor has confused launched into service and launched from the slip. Others have non RS fansites giving wrong dates or stating completion dates which have been transcribed as launch dates. Then there are copy and paste errors etc. My contribution history today will show some I have picked up. Can I suggest you check the sources on the individual article for accuracy before entering them in the List of ships launched article? Lyndaship (talk) 13:13, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Ah sure, sorry about that. I'll go look at your contribs and put them in the right place. Let me know if I miss fixing any. As a side note, if this kind of thing is up your alley, the PetScan query I'm working off is here. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:29, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Your petscan query is a mystery to me, I guess it finds all the orphaned articles. Bit too technical for me, I think the WP:SHIPS weekly cleanup list gets the same things [2] Lyndaship (talk) 13:44, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I have it set to pull orphaned ships from any categories inside Category:Ships by country since I figured they'd be easy targets for de-orphaning. Useful tool given how feature-deprived the categories system is. Anyway, I'll try to be more careful moving forward. Quick question - I get why launches are listed separately, now that I get the distinction and the ceremony of a launch, but why no list of ships completed in XXXX? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:02, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Now that's a good point. The short answer is probably the haphazard way Wikipedia developed. The more technical answer is that most ship books use the launch date (as once it floats its a boat) and so its relatively easy to discover whereas completion date is a bit more open to debate (when the shipyard finished it or when the owner took delivery or when it passed its rectification work) and less likely to be quoted in ship books. All the List pages - shipwrecks, commissionings, decommissionings and launches are a bit of a mess as to citing, completeness and accuracy so I doubt anyone will wish to start one for completions Lyndaship (talk) 14:15, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

I never thought of it that way - the "once it floats it's a boat" thing, I mean. Makes sense as a benchmark :) Cheers! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

History of deleted page Cecaelia

Hi! Would it be possible to get a copy of the edit history for Cecaelia? I’m wondering whether this name for octopus mermaids might have begun as a Wikipedia hoax. So far I haven't been able to trace it before July 2006. I am reaching out to you because you deleted the page, but please let me know if there is someone who would be better to contact. Thank you! Sgallison (talk) 00:31, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

So I emailed you a copy of the edit history and the content at the time of deletion. I've just noticed though - there's 292 deleted edits at octopus person that predate that article, so I'll email you that edit history and a copy of the earliest revision as well. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:46, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Hmm, looks like Wikipedia probably wasn't the oldest site to use the term. That oldest version of "octopus person" lists a website which is now dead. I wonder if I can get to it through archive.org. Thank you again! Sgallison (talk) 01:13, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Sort of - the exact thread wasn't archived individually, but [3] shows the forum in general. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:17, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

I looked into the July 2006 sites and those appear to have actually been edited later on. I did find someone's comment on DeviantArt claiming credit for the Wikipedia page; I sent you an email.Sgallison (talk) 16:27, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Randall

Just delete and redirect them. The Avengers episodes I definitely wrote myself as I watched them one episode at a time and wrote it as I went along! I didn't finish creating them though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:10, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm not going to do redirection stuff since the AfD is still up in the air, but I'll pull those summaries without revdel since there's no source. Thanks for the fast response. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 17:13, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Jay Wade Edwards AFD

Please reopen this discussion. I was in the process of commenting on it when you closed it, and the "delete" comments are either bereft of policy justifications or predate the addition of significant sourcing. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 23:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

The sourcing is hardly significant, but I'll reopen for your comment regardless. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:16, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Could you also restore the talk page? Thanks, UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:59, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Oops, yes, done. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:17, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Edits to Bionicle

I'm confused about your edits to Bionicle. You removed the "References in popular culture" section with the comment "pull section - we don't keep a list of every time someone eats an oreo on the oreos article, this is the same level of triviality". One minute later, you added it back. Did you intend to remove the section or not? JIP | Talk 16:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I had just closed an AfD for the List of Bionicle characters and I think the unlink function of XfDcloser did something wonky. I did indeed intend to remove it; I've fixed the edit now. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 18:59, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Toa (Bionicle)

Hi PCM, you have mentioned me in a service message in this AfD as proposing to merge into a deleted page. It's a misrepresentation of my position. I proposed to keep and stand 100% behind this. I'd appreciate it if you can remove my name from this message. It's clearly a mistake. gidonb (talk) 12:49, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

It wasn't a mistake, you mentioned a possible merge in your reply to the comment questioning your keep. Since that article has been deleted I thought it prudent to call your attention to it in case you wanted to revise anything - perhaps mentioning a different merge target. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 18:23, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Why would I want to suggest another merge target? I want the article to be kept! Don't decide for other people what they want. That's rude. It is already really unusual to make personal suggestions in such service messages! But if you do, please keep the suggestions factually correct!!! gidonb (talk) 18:48, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, I understand that your bolded argument was for keep. But your reply did also mention, however passingly, a possible merge. Since AfD is not a straight vote but a discussion, closers will often take such recommendations as a second choice if there isn't sufficient consensus for the first choice (in your case, keep). However, a closer can hardly put weight on a recommendation to merge to a deleted article. I courtesy pinged you and Dream Focus only to suggest that you may want to provide a different possible merge target if you had one in mind so that a closer could actually weigh the arguments appropriately and not simply be forced to disregard the idea. If you don't want to, go ahead and ignore me, I don't particularly care either way. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:06, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

My text said "It could be merged into the main but that article is already very long plus also AfDd". I'm suggesting to leave the article as is and said that the discussions should have been combined. That would have been good stewardship. gidonb (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

It's a spin-off of List of Bionicle characters. It could be merged into the main but that article is already very long plus also AfDd. Merge discussions are best held using "merge to"/"merge from" functionality. In this case it would allow a holistic view of content domain, instead of this scattered discussion. gidonb (talk) 12:27, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

This can easily read as proposing a merge as a compromise or second choice. Please don't yell at someone for taking a plausible reading of your comments. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

TonyBallioni, it's an extreme reversal of what I said. I want the article to be kept. You too kept my opinion out from the quote. Keep is keep, not keep or merge. I added that all articles should have been discussed together through an entirely different procedure. Matter of good information stewardship. I'm asking politely not to change my opinion from an official template. I do not think that is so unreasonable. I accept that PMC misunderstood, I do not understand why she would not remove my name after that was clarified. gidonb (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

PMC was pinging you and bringing your attention to it. Not telling other people that you voted merge. She's likely keeping it so there'll be an easily viewable record of the fact that she pinged you. Don't worry, other administrators are not going to read her relist comment as you voting merge. You should probably drop this. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:07, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Tony, yeah, that pretty much all sums it up. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I have clarified my position in the discussion just in case. Recently I have been followed, bludgeoned, and thereatened in my edits and having misquotes also come from the official template did not help my peace of mind. I was surprised that correcting someone's opinion wasn't on the menu but I apologize if came out a bit too strong. I appreciate the work that you both do at Wikipedia! gidonb (talk) 19:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Theo Schear

Hi PMC,

In regards to the recently deleted page Theo Schear, I agree that much of the article was superfluous, but I believe this should not discount the real notability of the subject. I've seen that he’s authored at least 5 emoji in the current Unicode lexicon, and there has been substantial media coverage including the articles below, the first of which refers to him as “famous for creating the jukebox emoji.”

• https://onezero.medium.com/the-pinched-fingers-emojis-creator-explains-its-meaning-88631a6619b
• https://slate.com/technology/2019/05/beaver-emoji-proposal-is-hilarious-and-extremely-correct.html
• https://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/2019/05/beaver-emoji-might-finally-give-oregons-state-animal-its-due.html
• https://twitter.com/root_g/status/1192213340191281153
• https://www.thelocal.it/20200203/italian-hand-gesture-new-emoji
• https://tribune.com.pk/story/2150088/8-new-pinch-emoji-means-around-world/

It looks like he even helped Jimmy Kimmel write the Meatball emoji proposal: https://twitter.com/jenny8lee/status/1070549934317944832

Considering the reach of this work is in the billions (most modern communications devices use emoji), the emoji authorship alone may satisfy the notability requirements. But in addition, I’ve seen that Schear has been published by SFMOMA, one of country’s preeminent museums, and creates films for the Golden State Warriors, one of the world’s most prominent sports organizations. I’ve even found a video of him interviewed on German television: https://vimeo.com/292505515/87cb3ed782

It seems that he was also the host of a major film magazine’s video series for a while: https://twitter.com/FilmThreat/status/1001906668353933312 (and was referred to here as a “respected film critic”:https://twitter.com/The_DannyMac/status/953070246583091201)

Now I’ve also found an article from an Indian newspaper about a recent film he directed: https://www.mid-day.com/articles/the-man-who-wouldnt-let-the-world-go-hungry/22673205

I cannot find the original article for reference, but I believe that in regards to WP:GNG, the majority of the citations did mention Schear as a prominent figure. I certainly agree that the article must be edited heavily, but deletion seems too extreme. Like Dflaw4, I also appreciate the attention to detail in this article and feel that there's a lot worth keeping. I’d be happy to help edit the original post down if you let us know where to find it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:4002:7020:D403:372C:A807:E1B6 (talk) 22:01, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

if you let us know where to find it. Us? Who's us? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:45, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Your fellow editors! I'll also add that the aforementioned work is in addition to the original basis for the article, a film about Frank Ocean that played in at least six film festivals on various continents, winning at least one Best Documentary award as far as I can tell. As an editor that contributed to this article back then (2013-2014?), I seem to remember that there was debate among several editors about the notability of the article, which was ultimately preserved. So if the article was deemed valid by multiple unbiased editors back then, it's hard to understand how the article would lose its notability after all the additional qualifications above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:643:8680:79F0:D8F4:8B16:7B83:8156 (talk) 18:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Your fellow editors! Sure. You don't happen to speak for Mr. Schear or anyone associated to him, then. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:11, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

That's correct, but we could reach out to him for verification of information. I found his email on his website: tschear@gmail.com. But perhaps that's outside of Wikipedia protocol? How should we go about editing the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:643:8680:79F0:B4FF:954C:3155:FC4C (talk) 04:40, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

So first of all, the "discussion" you refer to from a few years back was actually a speedy deletion tag, which was removed with the recommendation that the article be taken to AfD. It never was at that time, but that doesn't mean he was determined to be notable. It just means no one got around to AfDing the article til now, which happens. (There are 6 million articles here, after all; people forget things).

Now that the article has been taken to AfD, a community consensus there determined that Mr. Schear was not notable per our standards. Unless there's better sources available to confirm his notability, the article stays deleted.

So far, the sourcing you've provided (and the sourcing that was in the page at the time of deletion) is not remotely close to supporting a claim of notability. Please go take a look upwards on this talk page at the two sections labelled "Thomas W. Campbell deletion" and "Hexaware Technologies Wiki Page Got Deleted", where I explain pretty clearly what kind of sourcing we're looking for to prove notability. For more detail, you should read and understand our reliable sources and notability guidelines. Once you do that, you should hopefully understand why Twitter mentions and Vimeo clips are not reliable, and why the list of sources about the emoji thing are no more than trivial mentions, which don't support a claim of notability.

Until there's better sourcing, the article's not getting undeleted. And for the record, I can't imagine why anyone would be this dead set on resurrecting an article about...basically some dude who made a couple emoji, so forgive me if I can't help but continue to feel you're associated with Mr. Schear and his tireless efforts at self-promotion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:55, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Teahouse question

Hi PMC. I wasn't aware that you had already been trying to help the person who posted WP:THQ#Hexaware Technologies Wiki Page Got Deleted when I responded to their question; so, I apologize for the unnecessary ping. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:43, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Marchjuly, no apologies needed. I told the user to be up-front about their situation and they clearly weren't, which is on them, not you. I apologize if my response came off sounding like I was frustrated at you - it's not you, it's them. Sorry about that. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:29, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Draft: Bonga (producer)

You closed the AFD, for which I was the nominator, on the article on this person as Delete. (Thank you.) In your opinion, should the draft also be deleted, or retained for possible development, or should the draft be subject to an MFD? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:09, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

I think the draft should be MfD'd; I can see people making an argument that it might simply be TOOSOON considering the guy apparently only started releasing material this March, and you know how protective people are of the golden potential of draftspace. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:25, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

User:Frank Ranold

Hello PMC. I see that you blocked Frank Ranold (talk · contribs) indefinitely per WP:GS/COVID. I'm supportive of said block, but I was wondering: are you actually allowed to block users indefinitely under the general sanctions? Both WP:GS/COVID19#GS and WP:AC/DS#sanctions.user seem to suggest only blocks with a lenght up to a year are allowed. On the other hand, as a previous ArbCom member, I'm sure you're much more knowledgable on this issue - and you're probably allowed to block indef - so I'm just asking this question out of interest, not to insinuate any wrongdoing on your part. --MrClog (talk) 02:07, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

As far as I've seen it done previously, the first year is as GS (ie that it can't be modified without my consent or a consensus at AN) and after that it's treated as a regular block. Even if the GS wasn't in force I'd have latitude to indef him as he was sneakily inserting incorrect figures over correct, sourced figures after two warnings, and had no good edits. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:45, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Ah, makes sense. Thanks, MrClog (talk) 10:04, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Today's reply

Hi, I am sorry, I can't create big articles that has lots of words. I primarily create categories with occupations from various Canadian cities. I was extremely crying when the world declares a "pandemic". I am extremely sorry. I am here to help all Wikipedians and to avoid Canvassing too much during the COVID-19 period. I hope maybe a Wikipedia administrator from Canada will be created. I hope you will forgive me and to everyone for my difficult time. Thanks for your time. Steam5 (talk) 05:39, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Aw hey, no need to apologize. I wasn't getting at you, it just seemed like you didn't realize creating the article was something you could do without asking for permission. But it's also not something you have to do either if you're not feeling up to it. The volunteer thing goes both ways, don't stress about it. (Side note: I'm not entirely sure what you mean about a Wikipedia administrator from Canada being created, sorry). Take care out there :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:47, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, the Wikipedia administrator from Canada username is User:Bearcat. The administrator lives in Toronto, Ontario. Look at Bearcat's userpage to learn more about the administrator. And by the way, I will continue doing COVID-19 related edits for the respected related articles during the COVID-19 period for it urgent edits. And for you "Username Chaos", I can't say your username too long because I am too emotional at this but I can call you "Username Chaos", right? The question for you "Username Chaos" is "Do you want to take a break from editing Wikipedia?" if you say "yes" take a break for 48 hours, and if you say "no" to take a break from editing "Are you sure to continue editing?" The bonus question is for your online safety. An administrator told me "Don't be emotional, we are all in your computer screens!". So "yes" to take a break or if "no" are you really sure do you want to continue? I will look forward to another reply. Thanks for your time, all the best and good luck to you. :_-( Steam5 (talk) 06:21, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Uhh. Yep, I'm familiar with Bearcat, but I'm still not sure what you were trying to communicate there. Username Chaos isn't my username, it's Premeditated Chaos. But you can call me PMC if you want, since that's shorter. I have to say, I think it's a bit odd to be asking people you don't know if they need to take a break for their online safety - you might want to stop doing that unless someone actually mentions feeling stressed or needing a break. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:34, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the final reply "PMC", I will continue focusing urgent edits on COVID-19 related articles during the period by myself. Whenever I am ready to edit I feel free to edit but only whenever I am ready. Thanks and I apologize the question on "break". I will do better than that next time but I will not ask the "break" question from now on. All the best and good luck to you. Steam5 (talk) 06:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm also confused by this. I haven't had anything to do with this as far as I know, so I'm not sure why I'm coming up in this conversation — firstly, I already exist and don't need to be "created" now; and secondly, there are already a couple of dozen Wikipedia administrators from Canada and I'm not even close to being the only one, so I'm not sure why "the Wikipedia administrator from Canada" would automatically connote me over anybody else. It's sweet if I'm your personal favourite, but I'm really not the only one there is — and I'm also not clear why an administrator is even needed for whatever this is about.

Steam5, it's also really not your responsibility to worry about other people's "online safety" — nobody's getting or transmitting the coronavirus through the internet, so there's no quarantine on this place and no need for one to be imposed. "Social distancing" doesn't mean you can't use the internet — unfortunately, we all have to limit in person contact with other people right now, but internet forums aren't "in person contact". Even if there are people editing Wikipedia right now who do have the coronavirus, you still can't get it from them over the internet. So if you decide you need a mental health break to calm yourself down out of a panic attack by watching some comedy movies on Netflix or whatever (which it sounds like maybe you do), then you're free to do that at your own leisure — but there's really no need to go around giving unsolicited advice to everybody else to consider isolating themselves from editing Wikipedia, because it just isn't an activity that carries any coronavirus risk. I get it, we're all a little scared and anxious right now, but trying to take on personal responsibility for things that aren't in your control isn't doing your own mental health any favours. So just calm down and breathe a little bit — Wikipedia doesn't need quarantine police, so just relax and take care of yourself instead of trying to take personal responsibility for everybody else, okay? Bearcat (talk) 12:43, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

2019-20 Sheikh Russel KC season

You deleted the article, but SR Alamgir Khan just started the article straight back up! Govvy (talk) 11:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

GiantSnowman got it before I got to it this time, but I'll throw it on my watchlist and if it blues up again I'll grab it. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:09, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

salting

Seems like you forgot to salt Dadasaheb Phalke International Film Festival, and other relared titles —usernamekiran (talk) 23:54, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I did "Dadasaheb Phalke International Film Festival" at the time of deletion. I just double checked the AfD now and found the suggestion for the second article to be salted as well, which I did miss initially, so I've done that. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Logan Williams (2nd nomination)

This is actually the first nomination for Logan Williams the actor. The previous nomination was for Logan Williams (entrepreneur) which is a PR promo article about a non-notable student. I started an AfD for that as well, but I am having trouble moving the duel nomination to the "entrepreneur" and having a single nomination for the actor. Do you know how to fix this? Valoem ^{talk contrib} 14:04, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I think it's less confusing if you just leave it, you're not really supposed to move AfDs around after they're created. I already made a note about the issue on the nom. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay gotcha, quick question is there a way to specifically search for BLPs created by SPAs with images added? I believe a majority will be promo articles. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 23:11, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

That's a solid idea, and I bet you're right. Unfortunately, I'm not too sure how you'd go about doing that. I think it might be difficult to look for SPAs specifically because there's no objective yes/no criteria for that. PetScan might be able to do something close, but it's acting funny right now so I can't experiment with how. If you know how to write SQL queries (and I 100% don't lol), you could try the Quarry tool to run a database check. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:46, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Ah! It started working again. Okay, here's my first try on PetScan - [4]. It searches for articles within Category:Living people that are less than 100 hours old and have images. You could tweak the age (under the "Page Properties" tab) to get more or less results as desired, or add other categories (say Category:Articles with topics of unclear notability) to filter it more. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I think age is a huge factor as well, we have all these 20 year old "entrepreneur" clearly using Wikipedia the promote something. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 01:07, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

You could try using Category:2000s births and Category:1990s births instead of Category:Living people, just make sure you change depth to 1 to make sure it pulls subcats. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Rural localities in Vologda Oblast

Hello, there! May I return the articles stub about rural localities in Vologda Oblast that have been redirected? Wagino 20100516 (talk) 15:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

No, please don't, they were merged to the list and redirected for a reason. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 17:50, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I notice you've already done a ton of them, which I'm about to revert - please don't get into an edit-war with me about this. All of the information in those articles was merged to the main list. We don't need fifty million permastubs about these localities when we can have one list that compiles all the information. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 18:56, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Edit war? Of course in this case, NOT. You are an admin here so in my view you are certainly very competent in this matter. I was doubtful about what I was doing so I've asked for your guidance. FYI: I was reverted 65 articles only about rural localities in Vologda Oblast, not a ton of them. Sorry if my English is poorly. Wagino 20100516 (talk) 01:11, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Raegan Revord

On Raegan Revord, would it be possible for me to get the deleted article so I could work on it in my space? Thanks! Alden Loveshade (talk) 18:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I've userfied it to User:Alden Loveshade/Raegan Revord. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 18:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Alden Loveshade (talk) 19:07, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Question: I was one of the editors of the article, but wasn't notified of the proposed deletion. Is there a way I can make sure I get such notices? Alden Loveshade (talk) 19:10, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

You can put it on your watchlist and monitor for edits adding deletion notices, but otherwise not really. Since no one owns any given article, there's no requirement to notify anyone - even notifying the creator is just a courtesy. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

OK. Back in the day when I used my now retired account, notifications used to be pretty standard, I thought. But maybe they were done manually and I just didn't know that. Alden Loveshade (talk) 19:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

There was never any tradition of notifying every single contributor... some people may have chosen to do that, but that's never been common practice. Twinkle automatically notifies the creator when you tag or nominate something, but again, it's a courtesy and not a mandatory practice. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Notifying each and every contributor isn't possible, and nobody tracks who did major work on an article and who just corrected a typo. Adding the article to your watchlist, and keeping it there, is the answer. For instance, the reason I'm here now is because I didn't remove my watchlist entry when the article got deleted. CapnZapp (talk) 20:24, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Refund request

Hi, I am Irshad here. I would like to request you to refund the deleted article to my user page. I found some citations showing its notability. It will be published only after consensus.--Irshadpp (talk) 20:30, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

The discussion had consensus to delete, and unlike the request above for the actress there's no indication it was a "too soon"-type topic. Can you show me the references first? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Sure, please find below references,

• Development of Islamic movement in Kerala in modern times Chapter 6, Page 175
• Same book, in Abstract page 7
• Changing Identity and Politics of Muslims in Malappuram District Kerala
• .L. Muslim women in Malabar Study in social and cultural change≥
• The Hindu

Hopefully, above mentioned may enough to show the notability.--Irshadpp (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)